Nov 23, 2022
Chris Sayre is a Mortgage Lender in Kirkland, WA. He’s always had the heart to help others and Mortgages are just an extension of his desire to make a difference. When he’s not working, he enjoys spending time with his family at their cabin in Eastern, WA.
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Laura Moreno: [00:00:00] First Time Home Buyer Nation I am Laura Moreno and I am super excited to bring you our fantastic guest today, Chris Sayer. Chris Sayer is a mortgage lender in Kirkland, Washington. He has always had the heart to help others, and mortgages are just an extension of his desire to make a difference when he's not working.
He enjoys spending time with his family and dog AB there cabin in Washington. Chris, are you ready to flow?
Chris Sayre: Let's do it. I'm happy to do it. Yes.
Laura Moreno: Great. So I've given our community just a little insight. Please share more about you personally and then expand upon your business,
Chris Sayre: you know, um, I, you know, I have a big extended family.
Um, you know, my wife and I have five kids and she came from eight kids, and those eight kids all have five plus kids, so it's a big extended family. Um, my mother and father-in-law were just, they're from Belarus and they're just the most beautiful people, you know, that salt to the earth kind of folks.
They both passed away this past year. [00:01:00] So, you know, I think you're learn in life. You know, you really. What matters, what is, what really matters. And I have, you know, such a heart for people and such a heart to help out. And, you know, it's one of the reasons why I wanted to come on your show is because it's, it's where my desire is.
You know, I, I have it at heart to, to give. And I think doing mortgages is my way of, of trying to give back. Yeah.
Laura Moreno: Wow. Tell me, tell me more about that desire to help others, because you were telling me you participate in so many programs that really help others. They help the community, they help veterans.
Where does that come from? I mean, how did, how did it all get started?
Chris Sayre: I, I think it's an awesome question. I would say it really just got started, you know, as you live life, you know, you'll learn that, um, it's not very fulfilling if you're just living for yourself. Uh, I think that my goal for myself and for my wife is to do as much as we can to help others.
Um, you know, we don't make a dollar to keep a dollar, have a dollar more in the bank. We make a dollar to share it with [00:02:00] others. I think if you're blessed, you're supposed to bless others. So we, we look at the world this way and we're. One heart, one mind for this. And I think some of my most joyful times in my life are when we've helped other folks out.
Um, so I mean, just personally. And then honestly, when, uh, I've done a mortgage, uh, for somebody, I, I have such beautiful and kind clients. I don't know. I just, you know, I feel really blessed in that respect too. People calling me up years later, you know, asking me for help or, you know, all of my reviews on Zillow are all five stars and, you know, like they're, you know, they just are great people and it fills my heart to help.
Laura Moreno: Wow, that's, um, I don't know. Beautiful. Yeah, no, it's so, it's such an order to have guests like you that are with heart of giving, giving to others, you know, not only taking, or not only like is a, is a paycheck, it's a commission, whatever it is. It's more like giving, empowering others to buy homes. Like, do you remember one of those stories that really move.
Chris Sayre: Um, you know, honestly, [00:03:00] I, I probably would have, you know, quite a few, you know, you know, I've had people, you know, that I've helped out that, you know, they have families like ours or, uh, large families. Uh, usually, uh, it's people. Since I live in the Seattle era, we have people from so many different cultures over here, and oftentimes these other cultures they believe in, um, like having parents come live with them and helping out.
And, you know, you know, for me, my stories would. You know, uh, people trying to get into their first home, I can think of this one couple in particular. And they were trying to also do it so they could bring their parents over from overseas to live with them and, you know, Yeah, it's not, Sometimes it's not always easy.
Sometimes it is. But I remember this particular case, you know, there was a little challenge getting 'em approved. Uh, we ended up doing it, and when we closed it was just, it was such an important moment for them to, to be able to get this home because it wasn't just for them. It was to be able to bring their family over and for them, even if they would've lived here and rented, they.
Just fine, but [00:04:00] it would've been this emptiness that they had because with a home, like a home is for family, right? So you can't, it's hard to rent and bring people over and have it feel the same when it's your place, your yard, your, your home, everything is that. And so, uh, they were able to bring their parents over and they were just so excited and so happy.
And so for me, honestly, it just that that's kind of what you do this for you. Like I said, to bless people and I was so thrilled and so happy for them. And this is a normal thing. This isn't just like one time occurrence. This happens on a regular basis that people out there are trying to help family out and they really need a home because their family is kind of too tight in the space they're in.
Laura Moreno: love that so much and I see it all the time actually. I am an, I am an immigrant and I work very often with immigrants and, and I see it all the time. We immigrants want to help others bring others to the country. And even with your own savings, I mean, I see it even with my nanny. She's amazing. I have a one year old and she's always giving back to her community.
She's always bringing people over, always [00:05:00] lending them the money, always empowering, empowering them to live a good life. And it blows my mind how much generosity, generosity she's putting out there. It's. Really mind blowing and you remind me of her. It's, it's so beautiful. It's really beautiful to see
Chris Sayre: Well, you know, my, my wife and her whole family are immigrants also, so it's probably another reason why I have this heart for people who come from other countries. Cuz my wife came here, no English, no money, you know, And from that they just worked. You know, that's all they knew. Uh, just hard work and on top of being smart, of course, and just being, you know, really great people.
And I saw them come from zero to, not that they have a lot, but they have a home. Right. And that, that was the goal. And, um, and it inspires me. Uh, uh, to have family like that and, you know, I was born in this country, so for me, I feel, you know, very fortunate and I want to do all I can to help other people who come over here and need help [00:06:00] and, and do my part and do what I can.
Laura Moreno: tell me more about House for Heroes and how do you help that community of veterans? And tell me more about that. Um, uh, that part of your business.
Chris Sayre: Yeah, so there's a, uh, organization called Homeless for Heroes that came outta really the 9 1 1, uh, time frame. Um, but you know, it, it certainly, uh, helps, you know, military active reserves, veterans, uh, firefighters, ems, uh, law enforcement, healthcare professionals and teachers.
So basically anybody who's helping the local. You know, and they want to give back to them. So this program is just designed so it it with us in particular, uh, you know, like we waive our, our lender fee when we work with them, the real estate agents that work with them that are part of this program, they give part of their commission back.
Mm. So I personally, uh, recently talked with, uh, a really terrific realtor who, um, Uh, uh, uh, is part of this program and she had this awesome line and she said, You know, can you imagine being one of these [00:07:00] tiros and you just move into a house and the first piece of mail you get is a check from the Homes for Heroes program.
and, you know, so for her it just thrilled her to know when to do that. And it's, and it's not just a small check, It can be thousands of dollars that these people get. The first piece of mail they get is a check from the Homes for Heroes Program. So I think it's, for me, again, uh, I, I was super excited to be a part of it and I'm, I'm, I'm happy to be able to help people that are serving our local communities.
Laura Moreno: Wow. Yeah, totally. I, I, I love that so much. So, um, tell me more about where you are now, the market, What are you seeing in, in Seattle? In Washington area? Yeah,
Chris Sayre: Yeah, it's a, another good question. So, I, I, I would say that right now what we see is, is, um, you know, prices dipping just a little bit. So kind of our expectation right now, uh, in this area at least, is that you're, See, as we head into this recession, we're gonna see some pressure for money to no longer go into the stock market, but instead that money's gonna go [00:08:00] into bonds, which is gonna push rates down.
So anyway, big picture is we see rates coming down somewhere in the next six, 12 months, something like that. So anybody that has a loan right now, they're gonna be refinancing out of it. So the main thing is, so our line we're using is marry the home date, the rate, right? Because what's gonna happen is that you're only gonna do it short term.
Our expectations, you may see rates drop as much as 2%, maybe even a little bit more, and you'll be refinancing out of it. So the the good, it's actually, even though rates are a little higher right now, it's a perfect time to buy. It's a perfect time to buy because values are down and there's less competition.
If you wait until a little bit later on when rates are lower, then what's gonna happen is values are gonna be going up and there's gonna be more competition. So it's much better to buy right now while the values are down and you can refinance out of it a little bit later. And so that's what we've been telling all of our clients and all of the realtors that we work with, is that this right now is a perfect storm, perfect time to purchase a home, knowing that you're not gonna have that loan very long.
Laura Moreno: Got it. A [00:09:00] and that's a great line. I love this. Um, marry the house. Date, date rate, marry the house. . Yep.
Chris Sayre: That's a, that's a marry the house date, the rate that's right. . The only
Laura Moreno: thing sometimes people think about is like, well, but getting that mortgage is costing me money, refinancing is going to cost me money.
And, and to that, I will say that when we refinance our home here, we bought it at 4% interest rate, which was good. We refinanced at 3.2 and within a few months we had already paid. Fee that the cost to refinance. So, So it makes total sense. And I love that the values are a little bit down because that's what we wanna first ask first, First time home buyers.
Yep. Do you see sellers making more concessions as well, like being able to pay, like give us some help to first and home
Chris Sayre: buyers? Absolutely. Positive. Yeah. You are. Again, spot on. The answer is absolutely yes. I, I think sellers are also, they don't want to be sitting on the market for an extended period of time, cuz if they are, that means their price is probably gonna be coming down or they'll have to take the home off the market.
Got it. So the many, many transactions where [00:10:00] sellers now are, are offering incentives to the buyers. Could be a builder, it could be just an individual, you know, like you and me, who are maybe trying to sell a home that are doing what they can to help buyers, uh, purchase a home by giving them some type of credit.
We see this on almost in every loan right now.
Laura Moreno: Yeah. And we love that. So if you're a first time home buyer and you're, listen, Just get in touch with Chris. You know, get pre-approved and go start, start shopping for homes because values are down. Don't be as scared about that interest rate because you can refinance and like someone told me, Chris Buffet is like buying now the most of, he is fortunate.
He's making it right now because he's buying low and then's, right? You will sell high. So just getting that home. So Chris, tell me about your first time home buying experience. How was it? How were you feeling? And what did I do to your life to own a. .
Chris Sayre: Yeah. So , back when I bought my home, I remember that my rate was 10 and a quarter.
That was the going market rate. I hope you refinanced that. I felt . [00:11:00] I did. I did. But it was funny is I thought I was so smart and so slick because I talked 'em down from 10.375 to 10.25, you know? So I thought, wow, I did such a good job, you know? Cause I knew nothing about nothing. But you know, that's what rates were when I bought my house.
And then when I got into the business rates were actually at 7%. So they were still like right where they are right now. But I, you know, I felt, you know, thrilled. You know, I bought my house at a great price. Um, I think back then I bought it for like $134,000 and, you know, that house right now was probably gone up by six times.
So I, again, I would say real estate's a great investment and, and just, you know, when I had bought my house, it was expense. So it wasn't like it was a deal. Um, so the market continues to do that. So all we have to do is like, look at our grocery store and say like, what was the price I milk before? And what is an hour?
What's the price of gas? And what's the price Now prices go up. So whatever you buy at, you know, my wife has a great line about this. Stretch yourself. Stretch yourself because that value is gonna increase and you're [00:12:00] gonna be happy that you did. So as best you can, stretch yourself. Doesn't mean like put yourself in risk, but don't be afraid if a house is, you know, let's say 300.
Don't be afraid to go to three 10. Don't be afraid. Afraid to go to three 15. You know, get, get the better home for you and your family. Get what you really want. Get what you are really gonna, you know, be happy with. And it's better to go a little bit above than to suffer yourself, because in the long run, your income and everything else will catch up and pass it up and it'll be an easy payment for you.
Laura Moreno: It, It's so interesting you mention, I mean, we bought four or five years ago and, and the, the mortgage rate was a stretch. We were like, this is a little bit too much. Like, yes, we can pay for it, but you know, it's a stretch. And now with this crisis, I mean, rent prices have gone to the roof where we live.
Yeah. And we are both so happy because her rent. 30% less than the, the rent price in this area. And we're like, Thank God we bought, because everyone else that we know is trying to struggle getting rent in a [00:13:00] nice place. So buy if you can, It's, it's, as you were saying, you may have struggled for a little bit, but it's going to be so much better for you and.
And talking about communities and immigrants. I think it's so, so important to empower people that may not have their first language be English, or maybe the first generation buyers, because those are the ones that need it the most. Like what you were saying, you need that home. You want to bring people over.
You need to create that space. Ethnic cultural space. Yeah. Like at my home, we speak Spanish like you . Mm-hmm. . You need to create that space. And if you are always, um, thinking that your rent is always going to be there, you know, you, you, you will have to move, uh, at some point and find a new place. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Sayre: yeah. I, Can I give you a quick example of something, if you don't mind? Mm-hmm. , of course. So we have, again, I told you, five kids. So we helped, uh, three of our sons purchase a home, uh, one on his own and the other two together. And, you [00:14:00] know, they were all really scared and nervous because the payment was like $3,500 a month for the, you know, principal interest, taxes, and insurance.
It was, And they never had such a bill. And so they, they've been out in their house for about a. And now they have friends who are looking to rent. So the friends rent for a two bedroom place in near their work is 3,800 a month. So kind of to your point, you know, rents are escalating. I mean, I've never in my life paid $3,800 for rent.
But now they see that that rental payment that their friends are paying is more than their mortgage payment on their home. And they actually have.
Laura Moreno: Yes, for sure. And if they want, they can rent their rooms out to their. Yep. Be like, Don't worry, I'll be a good friend.
Chris Sayre: They're doing that actually already, so you'd say, You're right.
Laura Moreno: That's good. Pay my mortgage. I mean, just people, if you're listening to us, jump on the side of the ownership because it is not, it is not going to get easier. [00:15:00] You know, it's just not going to get easier. And I feel like more and more corporations are going to be owning properties, and it's the time for you to become your, the protector of your money, you know, your own landlord instead of paying someone else's mortgage.
So now let's go, let's, let's, um, go to our lighting round, which is, I'm going to ask you a series of short questions to help our audience even further are. ,
Chris Sayre: I'll do my best. ? Yes,
Laura Moreno: I may. Great. , please share with us your biggest piece of advice you can give to TR to someone trying to buy a home in Washington now.
Chris Sayre: Uh, so the biggest piece of advice I would say is, uh, get in front of somebody. Could be myself, could be anybody that you think is appropriate for you, but get in front of somebody who can help you determine how much you can qualify for. And if you can't qualify, what steps do you need to take? So what I would normally wanna do is I would wanna look at somebody's income.
I wanna look at their assets, and I wanna look at their credit. And I wanna, cuz usually people wanna know, like, I make money, I have no idea [00:16:00] what I can afford. I have some money for a down payment, or maybe I can get a gift. What can I afford? So they need to know what they can afford. And then normally what I would recommend is if they're within 90 days of trying to purchase a home that they need to have all of their information given to an underwriters, we can get them underwritten ahead of time so that they literally are gonna be, you know, final loan approved before they ever find a house.
So I would recommend get good information. Up front when you're within 90 days of trying to buy a home. If you're beyond that, then I think just giving a, a phone call or meeting with somebody like myself so we could just pencil out kind of a plan and then they could work towards that plan of hopefully getting home ownership.
Laura Moreno: great. And two questions out of that. The first one is, uh, commenting on getting that, sorry. Coming, getting that, uh, pre, not, it's not even a pre-approval, it's going farther away. One step farther, Right.
Chris Sayre: Yeah, so, So the ones that, Yeah, go ahead. What are the
Laura Moreno: advantages of doing that?
Chris Sayre: Yeah, so, [00:17:00] so a pre-approval, I can literally do the same day.
So I can send somebody a link, I can fill out an online application, I can ask them to send me some income and asset information, and I can send them a letter. and the letter's gonna say, Hey, you're preapproved for this amount, and it's gonna be a perfectly valid letter. It's what we do in our industry.
The next level above that is for an underwriter to physically review all of the information. And so what we can do is we actually can collect all the documentation, give it to an underwriter, and it probably takes, I don't know, 5, 6, 7 business days for the underwriter cuz the underwriter may have additional questions once you give inform.
But then it's gonna be all signed off, final loan approved. All you need to do is find a house. So the difference is now you can, now you can close like literally in 12 days or 13 days, you know, um, on, on your mortgage, and hopefully by closing quicker like that, it makes it so, if there is competition, if there are other buyers who are trying to purchase a home, the fact that you can, you're [00:18:00] already.
Done. You're already, your loan's already underwritten completely and you can close really quick, push you in a better position to actually get the home. So I would highly encourage taking that step. I think it's just a much, much stronger position to be in when you're negotiating with a seller.
Laura Moreno: And that's interesting because not all lenders do that from the beginning, right?
Like you are one of the very few lenders that will. ,
Chris Sayre: you're a hundred percent correct. Yeah, most lenders do the pre-approval, which again, like I said, it's, it's, it's a, it's perfectly fine to do that. But the next level above that is what I'm talking about. And you're correct, uh, almost nobody does that. Got it.
Laura Moreno: And. How will you find a great lender? So if you are not in your area, in Seattle, listen is looking for a great lender. First of all, is it number one, to find a lender or find an agent? And second question is like, how will you decide on which lender to choose? Because sometimes we try to call and say, Hey, what's your rate for today?
And we try to choose the lowest rate lender. But is that the right? To do that.
Chris Sayre: [00:19:00] Yeah. So I, you know, again, of course rates are important. I care about rates for, for myself and my family, but it, it's, it's not the right way to do it. Um, it's not the right way because loans are much more than, you know, just quoting a rate over the phone.
Rates are determined by people's circumstances. By, what's your down payment? What type of property are you buying? What's your credit score? And ultimately, you want the home. And like I said before, whatever home you purchase, you're not gonna have that loan very long. There's usually not a big disparity on rates, but I would be more concerned about having it be a stress fee, stress-free, low drama transaction.
Then having a rate that's an A through a quarter point difference. You know, the main thing is to get the home. Then your family can kind of breathe aside, relief, move into the home, and then you can regroup and when it's appropriate you can look it to refinance. Got it. So I apologize. I know you asked another question, was another question I could answer for you.
Laura Moreno: I think that was the main one. So the main one was, No, those were the two of [00:20:00] them. And the other question I have is like, so in order to find a lender, oh, you know, we have all these online lenders and we have also like, um, local lenders and those online lenders like better.com, Rocket Mortgage. I don't want to give out many names because Yeah.
Well I don't want to give names, but, um, they count with a, Exposure online. Yeah. So we Google, I want to do a preapproval, and within one minute you have a preapproval from that bank online. Mm-hmm. . I mean, what are your thoughts about them? How do you differentiate and what is actually the best for first time home buyers?
An online lender or a local lender?
Chris Sayre: Uh, you know, I'm a, I think it really just goes by experience. So if, if I were looking for a lender, I probably would go online to like Zillow. Redfin and they have, you'll see reviews for people. So it's like when we go to our restaurant and we tend to go to our restaurant that has good reviews, or if we're gonna stay at a hotel on vacation, we look up to see what the reviews are.
I probably would look at reviews for people, [00:21:00] you know, because I think I, I like knowing that other people, uh, have kind of, um, Yeah, you have given good opinions about something and it, it makes me feel a little bit more comfortable. And of course, a referral is always the best. So if you have somebody that you know, that you respect and you admire that has a home and they use somebody, I probably would ask them, you know, because I think referral probably is my number one way.
And then probably online would be my second way to. Reviews online for people. Like for me, you type in my name and read my reviews, right? So you can do that. But you know, I think either one of those two ways reviews online or a referral from somebody you trust and know. and
Laura Moreno: between having a local lender and a, or an online lender that could be not in the same town, what, what are your Cho mm-hmm.
your, your, what are your options? What would you say?
Chris Sayre: Um, um, I'm, I'm not so sure that, cuz we're a virtual world right now. I mean, I'm in Seattle and I think, Are you in New York? Cuz I, Yeah. Yeah. We're. We're like the other side of the world, but [00:22:00] it's like, you know, we're right with each other. I don't think it really matters.
Like I can do a Zoom call with anybody. Uh, anybody else could do the same thing. I think it's more this, this trust factor, this integrity factor that we're talking about. I think that's what really matters. Local or far away? You know, I, I haven't really sat with a client and almost three years. Um, I do everything online so they could.
Somewhere else, like in any state where they could be, you know, my neighbor next door and I still don't see them, you know, because we do calls like this. So I, I think that it's the person and the company and the integrity of the individual that matters more than their location.
Laura Moreno: What, what is the process with you?
Like, if I'm interested in buying a home in Seattle and I'm looking to get a mortgage, uh mm-hmm. , what is the process, uh, specifically for you? Like, what would you tell me? .
Chris Sayre: Yeah. So normally what we would do is we do a call like this out there on my cell phone, or we would do a Zoom call. Okay. And [00:23:00] before I do anything, I try to, I'm a big picture kind of person, so at first I just wanna understand what they're thinking, you know?
So I don't know if they're looking to buy like an. 12 months or two days. Um, so then I, I tried to understand, uh, their timing on things, um, their income. They're asked all of these things and kind of review and kind of talk us through and come up with a plan. And I, I normally say the same line that I said earlier is that I think once they're within a 90 day window, That's when it's time to start pulling credit and do things like that when they think that within 90 days of point or purchasing a home.
But if they're just trying to understand, Cause a lot of people just wanna know, like, I just don't get it. Like, I don't understand, you know, what can I even afford? What should I even do? So that's where I just, I just give them some counsel and I, and I basically will email them. You know, like my contact information, I'll send them a list of what we're gonna need, um, when they're ready.
So like, people have to gather things cuz we'd all all have pay stubs and W2 s maybe that are, you know, easy access so they can start gathering that together. And then I coach most, so like, don't make big purchases, you [00:24:00] know, don't make sure you're not late on anything. Don't co-sign for anybody else.
Don't move money around between accounts and make, you'll make it more difficult on yourself later on. So what I try to do is to guide them to kind of put the brakes on everything. Let's get this plan for you to purchase a home and make sure now you start doing things the way a lender's gonna review things to make it so it's simpler and easier for you once it's time.
Laura Moreno: And what have you seen? The last question, I think it's a little bit related to this. What have you seen are the biggest, biggest mistakes that home buyers make and how can they avoid them? .
Chris Sayre: Yeah. So some of the, the biggest mistakes they make is when they're trying to prepare to purchase a home, a lot of times they will close an account cause outta a windy debt, right?
They're afraid of it. But the way credit works is that if, let's assume you have like an account at a bank and that it's a credit card and that credit card you've had forever, but you really don't use anymore. The truth is that credit card, because it's your oldest liability, actually improves your credit score the most.
And when you cancel that [00:25:00] card, you run the risk of your score dropping like a rock. So I would say . So normally my normal line is. Stop, freeze. Don't do anything. Talk to somebody, get some advice. Let them coach you what to do and then do it. But, you know, sometimes people come to you and they've already kind of done all of this and you just, it is, it's what it is and you just deal with it.
Um, but I, you know, we try to tell them, don't move money around in accounts. Let it be, you know, don't make any large deposits, don't make any large purchases, Don't do anything like that. Get the house first, then do the other stuff. So I think some of the mistakes I, I've seen, like I said, are, are, are this where they cancel accounts or move money around too?
A chin, you know, don't change jobs in the middle of a loan or when you're trying to buy a home. You know, things that you would think that everybody understands, but they don't really, cuz it's not what they do for a living. You don't
Laura Moreno: really, I mean, it's so funny because you, we don't know, we don't live in, I mean, I live in this world, but usually home buyers, we don't live in this, We don't know that we kind of go and buy furniture before closing on credit or open Macy's credit card.
Just, we don't know about that. It's like, it's very, And that's the [00:26:00] other thing is like what you were saying, Closing an account because you want to make your accounts clean, you want to make them look nice for the lender, and suddenly your score drops like 50 points. Yeah. And you're like, What happened?
It's so counterintuitive. .
Chris Sayre: Yep. Yeah. Honestly, completely. Right. Uh, people tend to go to Home Depot, you know, and they buy a bunch of stuff, you know, because they're planning for their home. Like this is a really common thing. So we, I try to upfront to tell them, like I said, just before you do, Just give me a call and then I'll let you know.
Kind of my advice would be to wait or to go ahead to go forward with it. You know, I've told people to hold up on my own cars or furniture, you know, because there's a, somebody's offering zero down on a car or zero down on furniture, and, you know, if they really wanna buy it, then we'll just deal with it.
But if not better to wait.
Laura Moreno: Better to just wait to buy the big things. Well, Chris, you've shared with us amazing information today. Uh, what can we do?
Chris Sayre: Um, you know, I would love to help more people, you know, that's what I do for a living. [00:27:00] So I would love for anybody that has questions. I'm always happy to ask questions.
It's not always just about business, you know, of course I do this for, to help my family and to help other folks out, but you know, I, I know that if you do it right in life, good things happen. So if people wanted to reach out to me, they're welcome to do that. If I can help them with a mortgage, I would love to do that.
Laura Moreno: That's beautiful. And how can we get in touch with,
Chris Sayre: Uh, my cell phone I've had forever. I have a son who's learned my phone number since he was two. Um, but my number is 4 2 5 4 4 4 7 3 7 3, so 4, 2, 5. Beautiful. 4 4 4 7 3 7 3.
Laura Moreno: Yeah. Well, Chris, thank you so, so, so much for sharing your mission and your attitude to life and your well good faith and thank you so much for being on the first time Home Buyer Podcast.
Chris Sayre: Oh, Laura, thank you. You're just a beautiful person. I really appreciate it. Thank you.